Study plan

Alle Anwendungsfächer des Masterstudiengangs (Abkürzungen)

Beitragvon andrea.crotti » 22.10.09 13:59

Still no answers from helpdesk :(
Should I write directly to Herr Jens Hektor or it's normal that it takes some time to get an answer?
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Beitragvon heipei » 22.10.09 16:36

Well, another option you might want to try first is posting something descriptive to the rwth.dialup newsgroup. Not only do the people in the NOC read it on a regular base but also a few students offer helpful advice (some of whom are not on this board here).
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Beitragvon NeX » 22.10.09 20:17

Perhaps this helps:
Info's about Vserver
Don't think about....Just do it!
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Beitragvon andrea.crotti » 26.10.09 23:14

Ah good I didn't see that page, thanks I also wrote to that address and hope to get an answer...
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Beitragvon andrea.crotti » 28.10.09 16:04

They answered me that that service would not be for students.
But maybe if I explain deeply what I would do and show that it would be useful for others I could get it..

I wrote this more or less:

1 Motivation
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Usage of SCM systems can improve dramatically the productivity of a group of people.
Today there are many alternatives possible but all of them are a huge improvement over a system like email for developing software.
Given that nowadays there is not the possibility to get an account on one internal server I would like to create this possibility.
The idea is to create a centralized system that allows students to use their preferred scm system for universitary projects while giving a wide range of protocols to the professors to access them as they prefer.

2 Implementation
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The idea is to implement something like [github], but possibly much more flexible and powerful.
*github* is really good for being free, the problem is that it can be slow, it requires another account and most of all in the /free/ version it's world readable.

That means that it's not possible to use without letting everyone else to read (and maybe copy) our work.

My idea is to implement something that works with all the major software (for example git, dargs, hg, subversion...) which use the campus authentication (no need for other accounts) and it's totally configurable.
We could also hooks that automatically export projects in other directories which are exported to samba/rsync/ftp/whatever.

Setting the right permissions would also let the professors to get the last source code of every project without even knowing how the students are working on it.

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Beitragvon palle » 28.10.09 16:37

Would not this be interesting for CS chairs dealing with collaboration solutions? Maybe you could convince one of them to help you.
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Beitragvon heipei » 28.10.09 16:39

andrea.crotti hat geschrieben:My idea is to implement something that works with all the major software (for example git, dargs, hg, subversion...) which use the campus authentication (no need for other accounts) and it's totally configurable.
Yeah right. Lets be realistic. If this service ever got started it would be for one scm (in this case git) and it would probably be a beefed up version of gitweb at best.

And I can't even blame anyone for not moving on this. After all the RZ isn't there to service the students but rather the research institutions. That's how the priorities are.

Come to think of it I've been working with other students on projects/assignments (think TeXing MaLo-assignments, gathering slides at a central place, making EGFi-Cheat-Sheets) since I've been enrolled and I've never used anything but private resources for this. In the simplest case you could setup a shared account on your workstation at home, make it use git-shell and you'd have your own SCM-box for free to use with your companions.
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Beitragvon andrea.crotti » 28.10.09 16:45

heipei hat geschrieben:
andrea.crotti hat geschrieben:My idea is to implement something that works with all the major software (for example git, dargs, hg, subversion...) which use the campus authentication (no need for other accounts) and it's totally configurable.
Yeah right. Lets be realistic. If this service ever got started it would be for one scm (in this case git) and it would probably be a beefed up version of gitweb at best.

And I can't even blame anyone for not moving on this. After all the RZ isn't there to service the students but rather the research institutions. That's how the priorities are.

Come to think of it I've been working with other students on projects/assignments (think TeXing MaLo-assignments, gathering slides at a central place, making EGFi-Cheat-Sheets) since I've been enrolled and I've never used anything but private resources for this. In the simplest case you could setup a shared account on your workstation at home, make it use git-shell and you'd have your own SCM-box for free to use with your companions.


Well this is your idea, if they let me do something maybe I know better than you what I would do :wink:

Why should it be only git?

It doesn't make sense to have my own box, it's not reliable or scalable.
I use lvm and ldap also on my laptop so you maybe understand why I don't like this kind of solutions...
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Beitragvon heipei » 28.10.09 17:18

andrea.crotti hat geschrieben:Well this is your idea, if they let me do something maybe I know better than you what I would do :wink
Sure. I didn't want to question your motivation on this. I just think it might be more work (initially as well as the maintenance and backup in the long run) than you envision. Ask the Jabber-people about their workload and then compare the scope of the (relatively straight-forward) task of setting up a jabber-server to the task of setting up an allround-solution for multiple SCMs (with a lot of custom components) and maintaining that. I'm just trying to get an idea of the needed work and I suggest you do to. I'm not questioning your skills or the validity of your ideas in any way.

andrea.crotti hat geschrieben:Why should it be only git?
Two reasons:
1. It would obviously be easiest to start with one service and see how that takes of and how much work is needed to do that.
2. When people coming from CVS/SVN are confronted with the wide variety of possible DVCSs they might not care and simply choose at random. That would in turn mean that after a certain amount of time different chairs would be working with completely different setups and interoperability would take a hit. I'd say start with git until someone comes along and tells you that their 10+ people teams has been using something else quite heavily for some time and would like to continue using that.

andrea.crotti hat geschrieben:It doesn't make sense to have my own box, it's not reliable or scalable.
I don't know where you live, but a lot of people I know live in a dorm by the Studentenwerk. There they have a fast and stable internet-connection, don't have to pay electricity and even have a fixed IP. I know a lot of people hosting git, svn, http and in one case even an UrbanTerror-server (with 32 players) right from their desk, so to speak.

P.S.: No disrespect to the jabber-people, in case you understood my comparison wrong. I think your doing an invaluable part in bringing this open protocol closer to the people and I'd use it if I hadn't had my jabber-account before enrolling here.
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Beitragvon andrea.crotti » 28.10.09 17:40

heipei hat geschrieben:
andrea.crotti hat geschrieben:Well this is your idea, if they let me do something maybe I know better than you what I would do :wink
Sure. I didn't want to question your motivation on this. I just think it might be more work (initially as well as the maintenance and backup in the long run) than you envision. Ask the Jabber-people about their workload and then compare the scope of the (relatively straight-forward) task of setting up a jabber-server to the task of setting up an allround-solution for multiple SCMs (with a lot of custom components) and maintaining that. I'm just trying to get an idea of the needed work and I suggest you do to. I'm not questioning your skills or the validity of your
ideas in any way.


I see what you mean, I'm aware that it will take more than what I could ever think of.
But if I don't get paid for it I have no hurry in a certain way.
I will quickly do everything is needed for me and my "teams" and all the other features will come "on request".

The most important things to setup at the beginning are only the permission policies, the authentication system and the filesystem hierarchy.
(or maybe I'm forgetting something).
Once the base system is nicely running there are no problems adding other stuff.

heipei hat geschrieben:Two reasons:
1. It would obviously be easiest to start with one service and see how that takes of and how much work is needed to do that.
2. When people coming from CVS/SVN are confronted with the wide variety of possible DVCSs they might not care and simply choose at random. That would in turn mean that after a certain amount of time different chairs would be working with completely different setups and interoperability would take a hit. I'd say start with git until someone comes along and tells you that their 10+ people teams has been using something else quite heavily for some time and would like to continue using that.

andrea.crotti hat geschrieben:It doesn't make sense to have my own box, it's not reliable or scalable.
I don't know where you live, but a lot of people I know live in a dorm by the Studentenwerk. There they have a fast and stable internet-connection, don't have to pay electricity and even have a fixed IP. I know a lot of people hosting git, svn, http and in one case even an UrbanTerror-server (with 32 players) right from their desk, so to speak.

P.S.: No disrespect to the jabber-people, in case you understood my comparison wrong. I think your doing an invaluable part in bringing this open protocol closer to the people and I'd use it if I hadn't had my jabber-account before enrolling here.


Yes maybe you're right, I'm also curious to see the possible requests..
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Beitragvon Coolcat » 28.10.09 18:53

Ask the Jabber-people about their workload

In average a few hours per week. There are also a few other people, but I'm doing 90% of the work at the moment. However, I'm a perfectionist, there is a difference in keep it running and keep it secure and stable running. ;)
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
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Beitragvon Coolcat » 28.10.09 19:19

P.S.:
@andrea.crotti: Make clear to them that you not only want that server for yourself, but for all students and employees. I can try to talk to Dominik Friedrich if you want.
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
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Beitragvon oxygen » 28.10.09 20:32

andrea how long are you going to stay here in aachen? i guess such a project should last at least 2-3 years. I guess if you stay here just for 6 months or sth like that, it's not worth it.
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Beitragvon andrea.crotti » 28.10.09 20:40

I'm staying at least one year, after that someone else can inherit the thing I guess...

About a "Home server" I don't have space, I don't have a spare computer and I have no intention to keep something always on in my bedroom ;)

If in plus you think that the university of Aachen doesn't have anything like that at the moment than I think it would be a good thing for everyone!

@Coolcat: I think I already made it clear that would be for everyone, at least in the mail I sent.
If you could talk with that guy (which covers which role?) it would be great, thanks!
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Beitragvon Coolcat » 28.10.09 22:56

which covers which role?

He is responsible for the server hosting and was one of the two founders of the RWTH-Jabber-Project. I sent him a mail. :)
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
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